Wednesday, 23 September 2009

Alcibiades

Alcibiades was a key player in the Pelopponesian war, being successively an Athenian General, military advisor to the Spartans, then the Persians and after that Athens, again.  The idea for the disastrous invasion of Syracuse, was his; but he didn't execute it.  Perhaps it might have worked under his leadership?


I believe the Alcibiades mini was painted by Dave Woodward of EVM (and it is a really lovely paint job!).  I painted a standard bearer to join him. 

19 comments:

Consul said...

Great looking command unit! I hope the ones i'm making for my Macedonians will look just as good.

I'm not making stands like this for my Romans though, I'm having them as individual figures, my reasoning my be explained in a post in the future!

BigRedBat said...

Is that a Wabby reason, Consul?

I really like the little dioramas. I inscribe the general's name on the base, in Latin or more recently Archaic Greek lettering.

Doc Phobos said...

Beautiful stand! And on top of the great paintjobs and composition, Alcebiades is such an interesting personality.

Btw... Are you planing to paint a purely Athenian and a purely Spartan army, or a Delian League force and Peloponnesian League army?

BigRedBat said...

Hi Doc,

Well... I have around 150 Spartans which is more than enough; I'd like to do some Pelopponesian allies for them. But where am I going to find a big bunch of generic Greeks with Pilos? Most of the Foundry WotGs are in Corinthian helmets.

Athens would be logical, but what I reeeealy fancy is a Theban army, led by Epaminondas.

Doc Phobos said...

Well, don't worry too much about the helmets. You don't need forces wearing exclusively the Pilos helmets for the Spartan allies. Sure, some would copy the Spartans to a point (if one would take for granted that Spartans were using it exclusively). I can imagine that especially the Corinthians would probably still wear a mixture of head-gear. This Pilos obsession, we wargamers and osprey-readers have, is not that well founded anyway. The one passage by Thucydides, that is so often quoted,does not even provide a clear information. He might not even have written about metal helmets, but rather of felt caps (as the etymology of the word could suggest), that were worn underneath many different kinds of protective headgear.

BigRedBat said...

I wouldn't want the allies to be all in pilos, but I'd like to have a wide range of helmets, including pilos, the infantry version of the boeotian and thracian helmets. I'd not be unhappy to have some felt pilos, too!

Doc Phobos said...

Then the sky is the limit! :) You can use any Spartan and paint him in any way that doesn't immediately suggest Spartan origin. Or even go in the exact opposite direction and dress them in red and make the look like Spartans (but with a different shield blazon). If these guys copied the Spartans, it probably was because of the Spartan fame and they would try to copy as many mannerisms as possible. Therefore even a full beard might be perfectly fine (although I personally would use the Spartans with the short beard).

As for felt, there are some foundry Spartans with a pretty simple roundish cap... These could be painted as felt caps easily.

Ah, Greek armies are so exciting!

BigRedBat said...

I’ve done a bit of that with the Tegeans http://bigredbat.blogspot.com/search/label/Tegeans , but the trouble with the Foundry Spartans is that they all have the same big beard and dreadlocks, even the ones with the felt pilos. I want some clean-shaven Greeks in pilos, and Greeks with short beards.

I agree they are exciting!

Doc Phobos said...

Yeah, I feel your pain. Those miniatures are impossible to find, again because in our and the manufacturers' minds Pilos is Sparta... Foundry will definitely not produce new stuff for the Greeks, so maybe companies like Aventine or Gorgon might help out in the future. Especially Aventine, who want to produce miniatures for a Pyrrhus army.

BigRedBat said...

Yes Aventine and Gorgon is what I'm thinking, too. Gorgon would be a natural fit, as Steve Saleh there did the original WotGs.

At the moment Aventine are slightly later than the Pelopponesian but if they did go there, I think Adam's work would fit well with Steve's. I believe Adam wants to do Roman Republic and Pyrrhus, first, then go on to 2nd Century Roman and cataphracts.

Doc Phobos said...

Yeah, I've seen your size comparison and I find the difference bearable.

If only Crusader had produced their Carthaginian Citizen Spearmen with Cuirass without sleeves... Although bearded, these would have been interesting and maybe could have passed as Greeks with Pilos and cuirass... Then again, the photo doesn't show the cuirass that well.

BigRedBat said...

I asked on the Yahoo group if Mark would do pilos helmet variants for the R&F hoplites, but he didn't. It's a shame, I think they would have sold some!

crowmag99 said...

you could use the heads from wargames'factory Numidians? is that helmet appropriate?

BigRedBat said...

"heads from wargames' factory Numidians"

I'm afraid their helmets aren't right for Pilos IMHO; the profile is wrong. I don't particularly like the bodies of the Numidian minis, either, they just look too muscular to me.

Hank Edley said...

Give us time .. : )

BigRedBat said...

Hi Hank; I keep daydreaming of ranges I would produce if I was you guys. I think I've mentally designed 3 ranges this week, alone; Pelopponesian war, Darius' Persians and Maccabean Jewish/Revolt. ;-)

I think the former would be my first preference, though, as it is a great period that would complement Steve's older Foundry minis.

Consul said...

Yes, it's partly a WAB reason and it means I can have the leaders easily formed up within my units (as we know how much the Romans loved order!)

The Macedonians have a command unit in each of the unit of Phalanx but the other troop types are much less formed so I could easily base them differently with a similar feel to this one (several figures interacting on a base)

Having said this, I have two Roman general figures and a couple of minis to accompany them so I might give it a try.

Where are the two figures from this base from?

BigRedBat said...

Hi Consul, single basing makes sense in WAB terms.

They are both Foundry figures from the World of the Greeks range; lovely minis.

Hank Edley said...

I keep daydreaming of ranges I would produce ....

So do I ...

There is "the list" course it keeps evolving and changing .. The Etruscans are just the start ..

Always looking for ideas for both ranges and the character ranges ..